Stacia, Nothing-to-See-Here (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
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piper902021-05-21 10:49 am
credit_not_blame) wrote in piper902021-05-21 10:49 am
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[bendy-timed] Let's Get It All Out [locked to New Hires except Price, Mac, and Jack Spicer]
[Not too long after some of the New Hires come back from this mess of a mission, a locked down video post appears on the secret network from everyone's favorite still-underaged-shhhh werewolf. She looks perky, in the slightly manic manner of someone gearing up for a fight.]
Since everyone got so excited about my question regarding what we were going to do with the Jorgmund scientists on the last mission, promptly turning it into a seething argument on whether or not killing is ever acceptable, I've decided to bring it up here on the Rig. Because apparently we need to have this conversation now or else we're going to have it at a completely inappropriate time and place; like on a mission where we're trying to plan out how to escape a prison that mind-fucks us.
[Because really, people? Really? Stacia clears her throat and schools her expression back into a smile.]
I'm going to need everyone to shitpost like crazy on the public side of things, because I can't be in charge of that and in charge of moderating this, the hottest of topics.
Speaking of, guess what. I'm in charge of moderating this conversation because Lonestar likes me best. Or because I volunteered; six of one, half dozen of the other. That means that I can freeze your threads and put you in time out if you break the rules.
1) Don't be an asshole. This is my favorite rule, and I am become Asshole Arbiter. Keep a civil tongue in your head and/or civil fingers on your keyboard. I recognize that this is a topic that is very contentious and very important to a lot of people, but we have to be able to work with each other. Allow me to remind you that we have been literally enslaved by a corporation in a reality separate from our own that has implanted internal shock collars inside our bodies. The attitude of your fellow enslaved are not the biggest problem here.
2) Participate in good faith. There are a few people who have not been invited to this conversation because I don't trust them to follow this rule. While I believe that having shit-stirrers around is important, I don't have the energy to wrangle them and all of you right now. If you decide that now is the time to reveal yourself as a shit-stirrer and you just want to piss people off, you will be declared an asshole and in violation of Rule 1.
3) This is a discussion to help determine what we're doing to do moving forward, not a moral debate. Obviously if you feel that killing someone is always wrong, that will inform your argument. That's fine! But if I see anyone going on about how so-and-so is naive idiot for refusing to kill or such-and-such is a monster because they do kill, I'm gonna put you in time out. Even if I agree with you! Because see Rule 1.
4) Feel free to self-moderate! I can't be everywhere at once -- in fact, there's only one of me. If you find yourself in a debate that isn't going anywhere, feel free to excuse yourself. Or even to not respond! You will not actually die if you don't get the last word in! If someone excuses themself from an exchange with you or stops responding to you, do not follow them around to continue harassing them. See again Rule 1.
5) If I freeze your thread or put you in time-out, go shitpost until you've calmed down again. Or read over what you were posting and ask yourself what was happening that I came in and put a stop to it. Or, if you feel that I am a most unfair and power-drunk bitch, you can go and make your own discussion post. Then whether or not you're in violation of Rule 1 is not my problem anymore.
Since everyone got so excited about my question regarding what we were going to do with the Jorgmund scientists on the last mission, promptly turning it into a seething argument on whether or not killing is ever acceptable, I've decided to bring it up here on the Rig. Because apparently we need to have this conversation now or else we're going to have it at a completely inappropriate time and place; like on a mission where we're trying to plan out how to escape a prison that mind-fucks us.
[Because really, people? Really? Stacia clears her throat and schools her expression back into a smile.]
I'm going to need everyone to shitpost like crazy on the public side of things, because I can't be in charge of that and in charge of moderating this, the hottest of topics.
Speaking of, guess what. I'm in charge of moderating this conversation because Lonestar likes me best. Or because I volunteered; six of one, half dozen of the other. That means that I can freeze your threads and put you in time out if you break the rules.
1) Don't be an asshole. This is my favorite rule, and I am become Asshole Arbiter. Keep a civil tongue in your head and/or civil fingers on your keyboard. I recognize that this is a topic that is very contentious and very important to a lot of people, but we have to be able to work with each other. Allow me to remind you that we have been literally enslaved by a corporation in a reality separate from our own that has implanted internal shock collars inside our bodies. The attitude of your fellow enslaved are not the biggest problem here.
2) Participate in good faith. There are a few people who have not been invited to this conversation because I don't trust them to follow this rule. While I believe that having shit-stirrers around is important, I don't have the energy to wrangle them and all of you right now. If you decide that now is the time to reveal yourself as a shit-stirrer and you just want to piss people off, you will be declared an asshole and in violation of Rule 1.
3) This is a discussion to help determine what we're doing to do moving forward, not a moral debate. Obviously if you feel that killing someone is always wrong, that will inform your argument. That's fine! But if I see anyone going on about how so-and-so is naive idiot for refusing to kill or such-and-such is a monster because they do kill, I'm gonna put you in time out. Even if I agree with you! Because see Rule 1.
4) Feel free to self-moderate! I can't be everywhere at once -- in fact, there's only one of me. If you find yourself in a debate that isn't going anywhere, feel free to excuse yourself. Or even to not respond! You will not actually die if you don't get the last word in! If someone excuses themself from an exchange with you or stops responding to you, do not follow them around to continue harassing them. See again Rule 1.
5) If I freeze your thread or put you in time-out, go shitpost until you've calmed down again. Or read over what you were posting and ask yourself what was happening that I came in and put a stop to it. Or, if you feel that I am a most unfair and power-drunk bitch, you can go and make your own discussion post. Then whether or not you're in violation of Rule 1 is not my problem anymore.
no subject
No matter what the group decided, if it ran against someone's instincts or morals enough, they'd just go rogue. And I include myself in that number.
no subject
I've seen some pretty different people come to an understandin' on life an' death matters before, granted we had the benefit of literally sharin' each other's brains half the time but...
[ She gestures vaguely, that's not the point. ]
Ye both right, we cannae have that argument in the field again, and a consensus is probably impossible. But at the least we gotta see where everyone draws the line, how much they're willin' to shift it, so we have a general idea of how everyone feels before it comes up again, instead of it only comin' out in the middle of a mission.
Clearly it's not gonna help in every situation, but we decided a course of action and stuck to it back in Clarksdale, aye? So it cannae be totally useless.
no subject
[And with that smile fading.] I reckon you're right that this may be a more useful exercise to just find out where everyone's at than trying to shift people to one position or another.
Folks probably have an idea of my stance on it, but I say killing is sometimes necessary, but only if you got no other options to prevent someone from killing or torturing others. I disagree with ever killing someone over harm that's already been done. It don't motivate someone to change if you consider them past the point of no return, and at that point it's not about protecting others so much as sending a message, punishment, or revenge. Ain't a single one of those worth taking a life for, or, for that matter, making your fellow hires complicit in helping you take a life for.
[Little does he know how complicit he's about to be!]
For future harm - it's got to be imminent, and it's got to be severe. I'd say ninety percent of the time in my career, if I've been in a position to kill someone I've also been in a position to disable them or take them into my custody, and it ain't justifiable to me to do the former if the latters are on the table.
Unfortunately, intent don't matter here. I've had to kill folks before who were innocent in heart but who had bloodlust or magical powers beyond their control that were hurting others. Those are decisions I stand by, but would not could take lightly.
I know we sometimes don't get much time to make decisions, and we don't get all the information we need. And sometimes we don't get all the options we want. But those are my guiding principles.
no subject
Bah, memories are one thing, but sometimes me and ma squad become basically the same person; lot harder to argue then.
[ It's complicated. Don't question it. ]
Those sound like some good principles to me. Think the 'imminent harm and no other option's somethin' even the hard-liners on killin' seem to agree on. Tricky thing here is our options kinda suck, since it isn't like we can arrest people or anythin', but...
[ Being essentially prisoners themselves sure cuts down on your solutions to problems, in ways Cammie is absolutely not pleased with. ]
For me, s'like I've said—I'm fightin' a war, back home, we don't get much choice in killin' there, either; killed for the first time less than six months ago, probably won't get to stop any time soon. War's war, it's all very [ she gestures dramatically ] 'gotta kill you before you kill me or choke a whole city with nano!' and it sucks. Wish more than anythin' it would be over already.
But it's not a war here. The same rules don't apply. So self-defense an' stoppin' harm that can't be stopped any other way is my personal line.
An' I've had to do that, too. There was this guy, another version of a member of our squad—long story—that was a victim, much as anythin' else. He got all... corrupted, literally; electronic brain, an' all. He woulda kept hurtin' others and getting worse himself if we didn't stop him when we did.
[ She frowns. Her ears flatten against her head. ]
Still didn't much like it, but it had to be done. That, I'd do again. An' I'd kill to protect myself or others, though usually it's people doin' it to protect me, my aim's shite.
But if we can avoid it? Then ye avoid it. No question.
no subject
[He gives Cammie a somber nod. It's been almost twenty years since he first killed someone, and he remembers much more than six months of guilt and secondguessing and processing it afterwards. He's sure she's still working through it, some way or another.]
I've killed a hundred and thirteen people in my life. I reckon odds are high that at some point I'll be adding to that list. The way I see it, just about everyone has someone who would rather they still be alive, and I try to envision what I'd say to their mother or kid or best friend or whatever if they asked me "why?". If I wouldn't be able to come up with a good answer, a bulletproof answer, then I gotta stay my hand.
no subject
[ She scoffs slightly. ]
Dinnae ken what they think war is, then; this isn't war, this is the shitty aftermath of war where everything sucks a whole new way and the wrong people are in charge.
[ This is the kind of world that her world could end up like, if the Union won or their stupid nanotech got out of control and chewed everything up. This is the kind of world you win the war to prevent from happening, if you can't prevent the war itself.
She takes a moment's pause to try and think about how many people she's had to kill, so far, and realises she's not actually sure. There had to be like 5 people that first time, when she'd tried to just shoot out the accompanying tank's gun and accidentally ended up dropping a giant transmission tower on top of them instead, then they've been in other battles... ]
...think I'm at more than thirty, less than fifty? Definitely less than a hundred. Way we fight makes it hard to tell. An' the way the Union kits up their soldiers ye can't always tell what's a robot and what's a person, so.
[ It also depends if you count the people that she didn't actually kill, but could maybe have done more to make sure they were brought to custody, rather than ended up dead. She didn't know Aris's nanotech would kill her if she was cornered, but... anyway. She coughs. ]
But that's always been on the battlefield. Split-second decisions and the like. So far, that's not what's been happenin' here; sure, we didn't have much time to think, last time, but we did have time.
[ And they almost pissed it all away arguing about the bigger picture rather than the actual choice they had to make. Go figure. ]
no subject
[Dan's work is such smaller scale, usually, going after individuals or sometimes small groups that are preying on people instead of going after whole battalions, armies, nations. Dan's never been a position where he had to make the quick decision about killing tens of people, much less hundreds. The longer these conversations go on the more he understands how different his experience has been to those of some of the other hires, even though they're all life-and-death.]
The time factor is critical, I reckon. We got time to exhaust our other options before we think of the lethal ones.
no subject
Only way I can think to maybe give a sense of what I mean is... what we saw back in that town, when the filter was off, the damage done by the bombs? That’s war.
This is what comes after. Which, for the record? Terrifying shite. Wish I was back home so I could be fightin’ to make sure this kinda hell doesn’t happen to us. Cannae even begin to explain how important what I usually do is to that.
[ The weight of the war has been placed squarely on her squad’s shoulders and she feels it more keenly here than ever, because she can’t do anything. Seventeen years old and one of five people who can turn the tide of an entire war—no pressure, none at all—and here she is, a whole universe away.
Her ears have flattened again. Problems with having robotic rabbit ears that respond dynamically to your mood: they give your mood away, unless you purposefully shift them. Like she does now, forcing them upright and confident with a thought. ]
But... yeah, exactly. If we got the time to try alternatives, we should. Maybe we won’t every time, but we did before, and we will again. The windows to try somethin’ else are usually tighter, killin’ is able to be a last resort a way a lotta other shite can’t be.
no subject
[Stacia pounces on 'Fool' at most of the Moots she attends. She likes any roles where she can be loud and opinionated and not get smacked for it.]
We're not going to come to a true consensus, no. It is something that people feel strongly about it, because it's a painful topic. And sure, people will probably go rogue on whatever partial-consensus we come to. That doesn't mean we should just completely wing it.
no subject
The werewolves got the right idea about the public service of taking the heat for everyone else, it's true. I think this might could just be better as a survey than as developing a, um, Christ, what do businesses call it? Mission statement.
no subject
You're probably right. But I may as well be ambitious -- "shoot for the moon so if you miss, you land among the stars" and all that.
[Frankly, Stacia will be satisfied if all this does is let the people who do think murder is an option know who doesn't think murder is an option so that they can knock them out or otherwise distract them at an opportune moment. But saying that would be undiplomatic...and frankly, some people here need to learn about judicious use of murder.]